Trade Matters

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

If you have any suggestions for new items or problems with existing items please post here and I will endeavour to respond reasonably quickly. Please continue to use email / phone / mail for specific enquiries, problems with orders etc as I will be able to deal with that communication more promptly

John
Trade Officer

[John CutlerParticipant]

Hi John

I often wonder what exactly the 8 items in the “Conversions” category are for.
I once asked a previous trade officer about one item (I forget which) and was told to read the Manual!
Photos and detailed dimensions of these items might make them more useful than for their original roles.

Alan Gibson have no intention of producing some of the items unless they receive a bulk order.
I approached AG direct regarding the baseboard rockers but they would not supply me with the small quantity desired.
I suspect this applies to other products as well.

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

I have been trying to find out what they are as well. I asked around at the AGM and have trawled through the manual with no luck so far.
I think it is time to take up your suggestion over the coming weeks and photograph and measure them. gives me something to do during “lock down”

[Dai DaviesParticipant]

Is there such a thing as an EM tracksetta? With newcomers coming into the fold because of the points and track we’re selling, how about some aids such as these? Perhaps you can use OO gauge tracksetta; I don’t know the answer. But if yes, how about having those on the site. If no, how about encouraging one of the laser-cut type companies to produce some?

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

We don’t stock the EM equivalent of a tracksetta for the ready to lay track. It is an interesting thought though. The company that makes the ply sleepers for us would certainly laser cut them for us. When we are back to some sort of normality I can quickly see what sort of cost they might be. That might encourage some sort of demand
I’m not sure whether you could use an OO gauge one. As far as I can tell (I’ve never used one) they are deigned to sit above the sleepers a fit snugly inside the rail

[Dai DaviesParticipant]

I have just bought a set of these from you, so thanks for taking up the idea. The price for them is excellent! As was your service btw!

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

Well, I have discovered one of the uses for the conversion items. 5920 is designed to convert Mainline locos.
The description is in the Mainline general conversion Manual (Manual 3.2.2)

[Richard ParkerParticipant]

@Stores Manager said:
We don’t stock the EM equivalent of a tracksetta for the ready to lay track. It is an interesting thought though. The company that makes the ply sleepers for us would certainly laser cut them for us. When we are back to some sort of normality I can quickly see what sort of cost they might be. That might encourage some sort of demand
I’m not sure whether you could use an OO gauge one. As far as I can tell (I’ve never used one) they are deigned to sit above the sleepers a fit snugly inside the rail  

Hi,
Timber Tracks do the equivalent of what you are suggesting.
A very comprehensive set of curves.

http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=4&product_id=42
Cheers,
Rick

[Dai DaviesParticipant]

@Richard Parker said:
Hi,
Timber Tracks do the equivalent of what you are suggesting.
A very comprehensive set of curves.

http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=4&product_id=42
Cheers,
Rick  

Well spotted, thanks.

[Kenneth BelbinParticipant]

Kean Maygib Insulated Pickup Plungers, Item 4550.
I purchased a pack of these from EMGS trade. When received they looked beautifully engineered items for self assembly. Unfortunately I found this impossible. The instructions came on a scrap of paper with no picture, had at least one mistake and so were difficult to follow. I think that I finally understood how the items were supposed to be assembled but found it impossible as the internal dimensions of the insulator were too small to accept any of the components which were supposed to pass through it. I put a question on another forum and received one reply which basically said to bin the items as no-one could ever make them work. I am sure that there others in the society who have experience of this component and perhaps their advice should be sought but from my experience this product has no place in the EMGS Price List.

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

@Ken Belbin said:
Kean Maygib Insulated Pickup Plungers, Item 4550.
I purchased a pack of these from EMGS trade. When received they looked beautifully engineered items for self assembly. Unfortunately I found this impossible. The instructions came on a scrap of paper with no picture, had at least one mistake and so were difficult to follow. I think that I finally understood how the items were supposed to be assembled but found it impossible as the internal dimensions of the insulator were too small to accept any of the components which were supposed to pass through it. I put a question on another forum and received one reply which basically said to bin the items as no-one could ever make them work. I am sure that there others in the society who have experience of this component and perhaps their advice should be sought but from my experience this product has no place in the EMGS Price List.  

During the next few days I will endeavour to open up a pack from the stores and check them

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

@Ken Belbin said:
Kean Maygib Insulated Pickup Plungers, Item 4550.
I purchased a pack of these from EMGS trade. When received they looked beautifully engineered items for self assembly. Unfortunately I found this impossible. The instructions came on a scrap of paper with no picture, had at least one mistake and so were difficult to follow. I think that I finally understood how the items were supposed to be assembled but found it impossible as the internal dimensions of the insulator were too small to accept any of the components which were supposed to pass through it. I put a question on another forum and received one reply which basically said to bin the items as no-one could ever make them work. I am sure that there others in the society who have experience of this component and perhaps their advice should be sought but from my experience this product has no place in the EMGS Price List.  

Over the next few days I will endeavour to open a pack from the stores and check them

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

Ken
Sometime during the next few days I will endeavour to open a pck from the stores and check them out

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

test reply

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

Sorry about the multiple replies. I didn’t think the reply was posting at all

[Membership SecretaryKeymaster]

Hi,

although I’ve happily made the move to EM for my standard gauge modelling, I’m also starting to dabble in Irish Broad Gauge, and I was wondering whether there was any possibilty of 21mm track gauges, and of course other track-based and wheel gauges to EMGS standards.

Unless I’ve missed them on the products lists, of course, which is more than likely…..!

Many thanks,

Mark

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

@Mark Sellick said:
Hi,

although I’ve happily made the move to EM for my standard gauge modelling, I’m also starting to dabble in Irish Broad Gauge, and I was wondering whether there was any possibilty of 21mm track gauges, and of course other track-based and wheel gauges to EMGS standards.

Unless I’ve missed them on the products lists, of course, which is more than likely…..!

Many thanks,

Mark  

Hi Mark
The only non EM gauges we have are for P4. Unfortunately the manufacturing costs for items such as this mean that I would have to commission a large number to to make the price affordable.
If you have the specifications I am happy to either contact my suppliers or give you there contact details to see what one off costs might be
I can’t see them being an item that the EM stores would stock going forward

John

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

@Ken Belbin said:
Kean Maygib Insulated Pickup Plungers, Item 4550.
I purchased a pack of these from EMGS trade. When received they looked beautifully engineered items for self assembly. Unfortunately I found this impossible. The instructions came on a scrap of paper with no picture, had at least one mistake and so were difficult to follow. I think that I finally understood how the items were supposed to be assembled but found it impossible as the internal dimensions of the insulator were too small to accept any of the components which were supposed to pass through it. I put a question on another forum and received one reply which basically said to bin the items as no-one could ever make them work. I am sure that there others in the society who have experience of this component and perhaps their advice should be sought but from my experience this product has no place in the EMGS Price List.  

I have looked at these plungers from the stores and my observations are below

The instructions do leave a lot to be desired. From my experience below they should be assembled in a slightly different order.

On the assemble side the plunger has a small “pip” at the end where the wire is soldered onto. The pip is there to prevent the plunger from coming back out. This makes it a tight push fit until the pip emerges from the other end. When I pushed the the plunger through the plastic bush (with the help of a small vice – fiddly but straight forward) the plunger did slide in the bush but the spring was not strong enough to push the plunger back out.

From that initial experience I adopted the following to assemble the plungers

Open out the bush slightly using a small (~1.3mm) drill.
Shorten the bush slightly to aid soldering the wire on
Place the spring on the the plunger from the end with the pip
Push the plunger through the plastic bush using a small vice if necessary
Solder the wire on
Assemble in the frame

I have assembled several complete and working kits using the method outlined above.

The instructions do leave a lot to be desired and I will rewrite them based on my experience of assembling them. Once I had figured this out they are relatively easy to put together

I will be happy to send you a fully assembled set to replace the ones you purchased. Please get in touch if you want to take me up on the offer

John

[Paul WillisParticipant]

@Mark Sellick said:
Hi,

although I’ve happily made the move to EM for my standard gauge modelling, I’m also starting to dabble in Irish Broad Gauge, and I was wondering whether there was any possibilty of 21mm track gauges, and of course other track-based and wheel gauges to EMGS standards.

Unless I’ve missed them on the products lists, of course, which is more than likely…..!

Many thanks,

Mark  

Mark,

The Scalefour Society has long supported modelling in Irish Broad Gauge. I suspect it’s a legacy from the development of Adavoyle many years ago. From the current Stores List:

Track gauge, Type ‘A’, Rollergauge – 5′ 3″ Gauge (21 mm) £5.20
Track gauge, triangular, for automatic gauge widening – 5′ 3″ gauge (21 mm) £9.50
Roger Sander’s ‘Mint’ gauge for fine tuning pointwork – 5′ 3″ gauge (21 mm) £15.00

28mm pin-point Axle, suitable for Irish Prototype, intended for coach and wagon wheels £0.25

Brook Smith wheel back-to-back gauge, boxed, for 5′ 3″ gauge £6.00

Whilst there are no exhibitions in the near future, these are available to non-members from the Scalefour Stores at Scaleforum, Scalefour North and Scalefour SouthWest. Or you could join yourself and order by post. My own Area Group has two active Irish P4 modellers – one broad gauge and one narrow gauge.

Cheers
Paul Willis

[Kenneth BelbinParticipant]

@Stores Manager said:

I have looked at these plungers from the stores and my observations are below

The instructions do leave a lot to be desired. From my experience below they should be assembled in a slightly different order.

On the assemble side the plunger has a small “pip” at the end where the wire is soldered onto. The pip is there to prevent the plunger from coming back out. This makes it a tight push fit until the pip emerges from the other end. When I pushed the the plunger through the plastic bush (with the help of a small vice – fiddly but straight forward) the plunger did slide in the bush but the spring was not strong enough to push the plunger back out.

From that initial experience I adopted the following to assemble the plungers

Open out the bush slightly using a small (~1.3mm) drill.
Shorten the bush slightly to aid soldering the wire on
Place the spring on the the plunger from the end with the pip
Push the plunger through the plastic bush using a small vice if necessary
Solder the wire on
Assemble in the frame

I have assembled several complete and working kits using the method outlined above.

The instructions do leave a lot to be desired and I will rewrite them based on my experience of assembling them. Once I had figured this out they are relatively easy to put together

I will be happy to send you a fully assembled set to replace the ones you purchased. Please get in touch if you want to take me up on the offer

John  

@Stores Manager said:

I have looked at these plungers from the stores and my observations are below

The instructions do leave a lot to be desired. From my experience below they should be assembled in a slightly different order.

On the assemble side the plunger has a small “pip” at the end where the wire is soldered onto. The pip is there to prevent the plunger from coming back out. This makes it a tight push fit until the pip emerges from the other end. When I pushed the the plunger through the plastic bush (with the help of a small vice – fiddly but straight forward) the plunger did slide in the bush but the spring was not strong enough to push the plunger back out.

From that initial experience I adopted the following to assemble the plungers

Open out the bush slightly using a small (~1.3mm) drill.
Shorten the bush slightly to aid soldering the wire on
Place the spring on the the plunger from the end with the pip
Push the plunger through the plastic bush using a small vice if necessary
Solder the wire on
Assemble in the frame

I have assembled several complete and working kits using the method outlined above.

The instructions do leave a lot to be desired and I will rewrite them based on my experience of assembling them. Once I had figured this out they are relatively easy to put together

I will be happy to send you a fully assembled set to replace the ones you purchased. Please get in touch if you want to take me up on the offer

John  

Thanks for the reply. I tried also reaming out the bush and found that I could then insert the plunger but not with the wire already soldered on. I thought that if I tried to solder the wire after assembly I would melt the bush. I never considered cutting back the bush. Were you able to fit the spring into the bush or did it sit proud? If the latter there was not enough room between the loco frame and wheel using standard EM spacers as the spring was about 2mm when fully compressed. Thanks for the offer of made-up assemblies but I have now used wipers on the inside of the wheel.

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

The spring sits proud of the plunger.
I must admit that i haven’t tried these in a frame. It is possible that they are not particularly suited to the finescale tolerances.

I think from your comments and my observations I will temporarily withdraw them to see if they are suitable or not. I am in the middle of building a chassis myself so i will see how well they fit

I know they have been available for quite a few years now so I wonder how OO modellers got on with them

Thank you for letting me know your experience of these. With the number of items in the stores it is often difficult to know just how suitable they all are

John

[Malcolm RussellParticipant]

John, I see that three-point gauges are still listed in the store. I believe these should be used to get gauge widening on tight curves. I have two of these bought from one of your predecessors around 1980, and I was puzzled as to how they could possibly work. The outer pair of studs have their slots perfectly in line – probably milled in situ. The outer rail fits snugly in the slots as a perfectly straight line and cannot adopt a curve to match the inner rail. It has recently dawned on me that the gauges would work as intended if the outer pair of studs could rotate. On my samples they are rivetted up tight, but I managed to get them to rotate freely with penetrating oil and tightly gripping pliers. Do your stock items have rotating studs?
regards, Malcolm

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

@Malcolm Russell said:
John, I see that three-point gauges are still listed in the store. I believe these should be used to get gauge widening on tight curves. I have two of these bought from one of your predecessors around 1980, and I was puzzled as to how they could possibly work. The outer pair of studs have their slots perfectly in line – probably milled in situ. The outer rail fits snugly in the slots as a perfectly straight line and cannot adopt a curve to match the inner rail. It has recently dawned on me that the gauges would work as intended if the outer pair of studs could rotate. On my samples they are rivetted up tight, but I managed to get them to rotate freely with penetrating oil and tightly gripping pliers. Do your stock items have rotating studs?
regards, Malcolm  

Hi Malcolm
All the gauges i have come across, including a P4 gauge that I have in stock, are of similar designs. That is 3 machined slots on a triangular base (no rotation). The gauges we currently have are not the ones that you purchased many years ago as we no longer have the drawings. They do, however, work on the same principle. The riveted slots I don’t think were ever meant to rotate, more a manufacturing set up.
It is possible that the slots in the gauges you have are slightly undersized and so when used on a tight curve are difficult to fit. I have come across some of the roller gauges we have in stock that were manufactured some years ago have to be forced onto the rail.
Theoretically you are correct in that both the inner and outer slots should in fact be points and not slots. However if you think of the relative distances involved (Radius of curve verses length of slot and distance between slots) the amount of “free play” needed in the slots is tiny and probably well within machining tolerances. That is probably the reason why nothing more sophisticated has ever been produced (to my knowledge anyway)

John

[John CutlerParticipant]

Hi Malcolm

I think you are right to question the efficiency of the triangular gauges.
From bitter experience I know that the outcomes are not reliable; well not for me at any rate.
I suspect that the inline slots on the outer studs (on the outside of a curve) may tend to flatten the rail between them instead of curving it out, giving rise to gauge narrowing.

I discovered 50%+ of my poitwork was narrow to gauge and I reckon I relied too much on these gauges.
Now, whenever I build pointwork, I always use a template, usually from Templot, and deliberately build slightly over-gauge.
Then I check everything with a vernier.
Slightly over-gauge at turnouts is desirable; it allows extra clearance for point blade fitting to stock rails in particular.
As I use plastic chairs on ply sleepers, it is fairly easy to apply solvent and move a rail out slightly if narrow to gauge.

Also be aware that if you use these gauges on plain track with C&L chairs the gauges will tend to grip the rails at their base.
After removing the gauges the rail will then move to conform to the 1 in 20 cant of the chairs and you end up with gauge narrowing!
One answer is to file the gauge studs down so they only grip the rail head.

Good Luck!

[Membership SecretaryKeymaster]

@Stores Manager said:
We don’t stock the EM equivalent of a tracksetta for the ready to lay track. It is an interesting thought though. The company that makes the ply sleepers for us would certainly laser cut them for us. When we are back to some sort of normality I can quickly see what sort of cost they might be. That might encourage some sort of demand
I’m not sure whether you could use an OO gauge one. As far as I can tell (I’ve never used one) they are deigned to sit above the sleepers a fit snugly inside the rail  

I have used an OO gauge Tracksetta by holding it tight against the inside rail of a curve; it seems to work OK for me but an EM gauge one would make life easier.

Mike

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

Hi Duncan

 

just picked this up. The conversion packs are on order but like Ultrascale lead times are long for me as well. The conversion packs are all Gibson parts but do include everything you need for the conversion except packing washers to remove side play.

I don’t yet have a date for their arrival yet but i suspect it is  still a month or 2 away

John

[John CutlerParticipant]

Is there any prospect of the EMGS stocking a 1:6 double slip from British Finetrax? I wonder if EMGS have put in a request to supply? Is it worth asking members if there is sufficient demand?

Finetrax seem to have been diverted away from EM by other gauges, notably 00-SF and 3mm scale.

(I am looking for one to replace a B6 and a troublesome 1:5 Y  turnout to save a lot of space.)

 

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

When I spoke to Britishfinescale about 5-6 months ago I was told that his intention was to go to the B6 range next (after the A5). I am guessing the timescale will be very much dependent on how much time manufacturing  the existing range for sale  takes up.

I will contact him again to see if he has an update on timescales. Once they are ready I will be stocking them

The OO and 2mm gauges were in fact his starting point and he expanded to EM

John

[Tom CunningtonParticipant]

John – although I can’t see them listed, do you still have the old stocks of the AG brass loco side frames in a darkened corner of the stores?

Thanks

Tom

[Trade OfficerKeymaster]

Hi Tom

I’m afraid not. They must have gone a few trade officers ago

 

John

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