RTR loco conversion, original drivers

[Geoff StennerParticipant]

Hello, All.  Over the weekend I viewed a YouTube video showing some Hornby locos on Retford , the large EM layout started by the late Roy Jackson and others.  The narration indicated that the locos shown had been converted merely by pulling the original wheels out to the  new gauge on the original axles, and, given that the locos were pacifics with complex outside valve gear, I wondered how this might have been done?

Has anyone here done this and is willing to spill the beans, as it were?

Thanks.

[Bob AllisonParticipant]

Remove the wheel sets from the chassis but don’t remove the wheels from the axles.  Then for each wheel in turn:-

• Support the back of each wheel on something flat and solid – I used an old brass angle, half inch x half inch x eighth inch thick with a notch for the axle.
• Gently tap the centre of the axle downwards with a flat-ended rod, less than axle diameter.  Keep checking back to back until it has increased by half the required widening.
• Repeat for the other wheel
• Add split washers to pack out from the side of the chassis and replace in the chassis.

I have only done this for an inside cylinder 0-8-0 and am a bit surprised that folks have got away with it on east coast pacifics. Perhaps they don’t mind missing footsteps or large lumps carved out from the back of the cylinders.  Propietary locos often have a thick washer to bring the centre of the con rods out to the cylinder centres – it may need replacing with a thinner washer.  Clearance between the leading crankpin and back of slidebars/crosshead is another potential conflict – some careful measurement will be needed before going down this route.

A couple of general observations:-

• A loco converted this way will look, from sideways on, exactly like the original proprietary model. For me, I would begin to wonder why I went EM Gauge in the first place, but other folks may feel differently.
• Such quickie conversions definitely won’t run on Pendon style track, as discussed on the other thread.

Bob

[Geoff StennerParticipant]

Thanks, Bob, most interesting and useful.

For interest the video is here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyikg7oYcHQ ,

and the relevant part starts at 28min., 57 secs.

Geoff

[Nigel BurbidgeParticipant]

Like Bob, I am also surprised they managed to get away with moving the original RTR wheels on an outside cylinder loco, for the simple reason that the wheels are usually thicker than, for example, Alan Gibson, and there is precious little space behind the cylinders when the wheels are moved out to EM gauge.  I have converted several outside cylinder RTR models to EM (Hornby B17, K1 and Bachmann Ivatt 2MT) and in each case used Gibson drivers but even then had to thin down the leading crankpins to avoid them fouling the backs of the slide bars.  On the Ivatt I initially tried using Markit wheels and crankpins and that was a disaster because of the space required, so I reverted to Gibson wheels…

Nigel

[asjharrisParticipant]

I’ve ordered from the EMGS store some 3mm to 2mm axles with a view to reusing the original drivers. I can turn down the original wheels of say a Bachmann Pannier to a finer standard, then hand knurl the 2mm part of the new axle, fit washers then put it all back together? Seems to work in my mind, just wondering if anyone else has done with society axles? The only sticking point might be the plastic muff which may mess up the back to back.

Cheers

Tony

[Nigel BurbidgeParticipant]

Hi Tony,

I might seem a bit dense here but looking at the society stores, the 3mm to 2mm axles are turned down to 2mm at the ends, to accommodate wheels with 2mm centres.  Most RTR locos I know that use 2mm centred wheels also use 2mm axles so you would then need to enlarge the axle bearings, for your new 3mm axles.  Or am I missing a crucial point?

Nigel

[asjharrisParticipant]

Hi Nigel,

Well, I double checked my Bachmann Pannier today with my verniers and it’s got 3mm axles with 2mm ends for the wheels. I’d already converted it using Markits wheels, but still have the old wheels and axles. It got me thinking that it might be easier than using Markits, Gibson’s etc if you have a lathe to hand? No faffing with balance weights either.

Tony

[Nigel BurbidgeParticipant]

Well, crack on then, sounds like a plan and good luck!

Nigel

[asjharrisParticipant]

Ha! Thanks Nigel, will report back in due course.

Tony

[asjharrisParticipant]

I’ve finally got round to turning down the Bachmann Pannier wheels, all is looking good so far. The wheel width is 2.4mm and only the front face has been turned down so far. The back to back will work too as the rear face of the wheel is flush to the rear face of the flange.

New axle with old shown in the image.

Tony

 

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by asjharris.
• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by asjharris.

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[asjharrisParticipant]

Pressed on using the lathe and running true.

Tony

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by asjharris.

[asjharrisParticipant]

The final result runs with no binding, possibly due to the slackness in the original enterprise. The motor is unfortunately a 3 pole unit which isn’t of the best quality.

Tony

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by asjharris.

[Nigel BurbidgeParticipant]

That looks very good Tony.  Maybe I should invest in a lathe; it’s something I have been mulling over for a long time now…

Nigel

[Stuart FirthParticipant]

You know you want to… (look into my eyes, etc)

Disclaimer – I really enjoy helping other people to spend their money!

 

[asjharrisParticipant]

Thanks Nigel, go for it. My lathe is the comedy Unimat 1, which being made of plastic will hopefully get the serious modellers on WT in a tis. But as I am turning masak and plastic, is all I need. I’ve no plans to turn steel or iron wheels for 7mm, it’s all about knowing what you intend to do with it.

The dials on the Unimat 1 are accurate enough to enable repeat turning which is all you need.

The shot of my wagon wheel batch below was all done using the dials and all came out at 2.3mm wide.

[Nigel BurbidgeParticipant]

Thanks Stuart and Tony,

I may take a short trip down the A3 to visit the showroom of Warco, who make/import mini lathers…

Nigel

[Vernon HarrodParticipant]

<p style=”text-align: center;”>Hello, I’m very late to this thread.  I knew Roy for over 40 years and I can’t recall him using pulled out wheels.  I think that such methodology might have come more recently.</p>
Perhaps the sponsors logo on the video is pertinent?

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