Fitting of nickel silver outside cranks to steel axles and how to quater the wheels

[Alan GeeParticipant]

Can any members help me with fitting nickel silver outside cranks to steel axles. I have tried soldering with 146 degree solder and phosphoric acid flux with little success. The cranks slip in use. Is there a better way to do this. I am thinking about using thread lockers like Loctite 601. What is the best way to quarter the cranks, does any body make outside cranks with square holes in them to fit on squares on the axles like Romford wheels.
Kind regards
Dr G Alan Gee

[Stuart FirthParticipant]

I can’t give an answer but I’m interested if anyone else knows it! With an 08 or 2 in the pipeline, I don’t trust the plastic Gibson cranks and am looking for an alternative. Markits now advertise ‘solderless keyed outside cranks’ which look a proper job and I’m assuming they are self-quartering although it doesn’t say. 3 styles of crank which look very nice too. The only problem there is that you have to use their wheels with the redundant crank boss, which I don’t really want to do. Still, if anyone has used these I’d be interested in how they got on. Ideally we’d mix Gibson wheels with Romford axles and cranks but I really don’t think that’s possible unless anyone knows differently?
In terms of fixing a nickel crank to the axle I was planning to experiment with a tight fit, forced half on in the vice, quartered then forced the rest of the way with a drop of Loctite 603 for good measure. Only 2 critical wheels of course so not as desperate as it sounds (I hope).

[Paul WillisParticipant]

@Stuart Firth said:
I can’t give an answer but I’m interested if anyone else knows it! With an 08 or 2 in the pipeline, I don’t trust the plastic Gibson cranks and am looking for an alternative. Markits now advertise ‘solderless keyed outside cranks’ which look a proper job and I’m assuming they are self-quartering although it doesn’t say. 3 styles of crank which look very nice too. The only problem there is that you have to use their wheels with the redundant crank boss, which I don’t really want to do.

Colour me confused…

If you’re building an 08, then aren’t the driving wheels inside the outside frames? And therefore completely invisible, to all intents and purposes?

Unless you’re planning on “getting it all right”, as someone else used to say.

Cheers
Paul Willis

[Stuart FirthParticipant]

Yes I daresay you’re right, but it just feels wrong! I do prefer the look of Gibson wheels though.

[Paul WillisParticipant]

@Stuart Firth said:
Yes I daresay you’re right, but it just feels wrong! I do prefer the look of Gibson wheels though.  

Hmmm… Rock and a hard place…

What are your feelings about using the Gibson plastic cranks, and then once you have the quartering properly sorted, pinning the cranks through the axles? It’s not too difficult to do, although a pillar drill or similar will help.

FWIW, I have an M&L 1076 saddle tank with Gibson outside cranks on it that I built thirty years ago, and although it only is run occasionally, the quartering has never shifted. That is just fixed with Loctite 601. I think 603 is the more modern version – it’s the latest bottle I bought.

HTH
Paul

[Dai DaviesParticipant]

I have a Duke with Romford wheels and cranks. Perfect after 30 years. I also have a Dukedog with Alan Gibson plastic cranks, fine for n years but they have now ‘cracked’ and are now loose, so will be replaced with new ones in the next month or so. A
Though I prefer the looks of the AG wheels, the Romford/markits are easier to sort out.

[Stuart FirthParticipant]

My concern with the plastic ones is that I, too have had them split in the past. Pinning – I think I could do that but would it stop them splitting? Therefore, like Dr. Gee I would rather use metal ones. I’m considering buying some of those new Markits ones, just the cranks and securing them to the axle as described above. Whether I can work to good enough tolerances to create a proper interference fit is another thing, but hopefully the Loctite would come to the rescue there.

[Stuart FirthParticipant]

Interested in kicking this one back to life, as I now have some etched brass 08 cranks from Rhumney Models. These are built up in layers to prototype thickness. Seeking advice on RMWeb I was advised that a moderate interference fit will suffice, secured with Loctite, so I’ll be trying that one in due course.

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